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0.9.0 startup missing extra menu


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#1
OFFLINE   JohnDory

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we use  +set fs_game silent as an addon when we run ET but the addon menu does not appear, neither does it by pushing escape key.

The menu only appears once you've joined a silent server and push escape.

 

Should the extra menu be shown as soon as silent is run, even if not on a server ?



#2
OFFLINE   gaoesa

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The additional menu is active only when the player is on the server that references it.



#3
OFFLINE   JohnDory

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Is there any way adding it so that it is accessable when the game is first run, so our players have access to the menu for joining our servers as before with 0.8.2 ? we edited that one to add our own menu.



#4
OFFLINE   gaoesa

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You can try to convince the players to install your menus by hand. But it is not possible for the server to make the changes to the client game.

 

Since having a second menu is not as bad as changing the actual client menus, we can consider adding that functionality to the offline clients. That requires changes to the client so it is not going to be possible with this version. Race for the last menu to get unzipped by the client game would still be an issue if we do that though.



#5
OFFLINE   JohnDory

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we used to have our own menu.pk3 now we've added it as the second menu but it doesnt load when silent is loaded, only when you've joined a silent server.

I thought the idea behind the second menu was good but surely when you load silent it should load the second menu then and not wait until your on a server ?



#6
OFFLINE   Dragonji

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You can try to convince the players to install your menus by hand. But it is not possible for the server to make the changes to the client game.

Woah, this is great!

#7
OFFLINE   gaoesa

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we used to have our own menu.pk3 now we've added it as the second menu but it doesnt load when silent is loaded, only when you've joined a silent server.

I thought the idea behind the second menu was good but surely when you load silent it should load the second menu then and not wait until your on a server ?

I don't understand why the players should have such menus while they are not on the server. Surely the players expect their games to be intact even if they visit some random server. The additional menu is used while on the server and it is for the admins to have a possibility for branding and for creating additions that are relevant for their server without making alterations to the client games. Enabling the additional menu while offline is troublesome, the players will need to have a choice if that is what they want for their game and/or which additional menu they wish to use, from your server or from some other server.

 

If there are modifications to the menus that benefit all players, we can surely modify the silent menus for next versions, if there are people who want to suggest such modifications.



#8
OFFLINE   JohnDory

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we use the menus to list our servers, rules and web page.

our players like the idea of clicking on a server name to join that server, where now they can change between servers once they have been on one but not before.

we have start et, click servers and click the server you want to join and join, no looking for the servers anywhere else or typing anything in, it is really handy for our regular players.

I dont see why we cannot have the menus as soon as silent is run, if someone is joining one of our servers for the first time they wont have our menu but they will afterwards and can use it if they want to find our servers again. Any one can have their extra menu showing then, all it takes if you do not want it again is delete the pk3 file for the extra menu and they will never see it again.

 

It does not need to be a silent modification to benefit all players, it will be only a benefit if you want extra menus and if any server adds extra menus you will only get them once you've joined that server.



#9
OFFLINE   gaoesa

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There is nothing stopping players having custom menus when they start the game. The only limitation is that servers can't force their modifications to the players. If there is a way to support such modifications in a way that players have a choice, we can implement it. But for now, there is no such way and I don't know how to do it either. While you see the buttons for your server as such a great thing that you feel comfortable breaking client games, I can assure you that a lot of players will not appreciate your actions against them.

 

So, if your regulars appreciate the menus, they can install those menus manually and be safe from having the menus altered by any other server they would visit.



#10
OFFLINE   JohnDory

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ok I'll look in to this when I get home after the 6th.



#11
OFFLINE   Topcat

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A step in the right direction
 

There is nothing stopping players having custom menus when they start the game. The only limitation is that servers can't force their modifications to the players. If there is a way to support such modifications in a way that players have a choice, we can implement it. But for now, there is no such way and I don't know how to do it either. While you see the buttons for your server as such a great thing that you feel comfortable breaking client games, I can assure you that a lot of players will not appreciate your actions against them.
 
So, if your regulars appreciate the menus, they can install those menus manually and be safe from having the menus altered by any other server they would visit.

There must be a way to make this, I noticed the other day when I connected to the FA silent server, then after that whenever I start ET I now have this big FA menu on the right side of the screen showing all the FA servers, there must be a way for others to make the same for their servers so that when people join their server this menu will be installed, and then next time they start ET they will have access to this menu from where they can launch the server they want :)

Edited by Topcat, 29 September 2015 - 11:54 PM.


#12
OFFLINE   gaoesa

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They have always had two menu system. It s just the main menu modified. They are not hacking 0.9.0, you just joined their 0.8.2 server. Every server is on the same line with 0.9.0. I find it disturbing you rather accuse than check the silent mod version of the server you joined. Even more so because there is literally no way to confuse the two version while keeping your eyes open while loading.



#13
OFFLINE   Topcat

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A step in the right direction

They have always had two menu system. It s just the main menu modified. They are not hacking 0.9.0, you just joined their 0.8.2 server. Every server is on the same line with 0.9.0. I find it disturbing you rather accuse than check the silent mod version of the server you joined. Even more so because there is literally no way to confuse the two version while keeping your eyes open while loading.

 

Sorry was not accusing or anything, I just thought it would have been the same for both versions, also I think you missunderstand me, im not talking about a menu once you are on a server with silent mod 0.9.0 im talking about a menu that shows up in ET when you start it the first time, a menu that lets you connect to whatever server you have added as menu button links, I understand that once you are connected to the silent server there will not be a custom menu within the silent menu, but it should be possible to have on the ET main start page everytime you launch ET. Just like I now have one for FA with different menu links to their servers, if they run silent 0.8.2 or 0.9.0 shouldnt matter when we only talk about a menu button to launch the server.


Edited by Topcat, 30 September 2015 - 02:36 AM.


#14
OFFLINE   Dragonji

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When you start the game, it loads etmain mod by default and silEnT devs obviously cannot change its behaviour.


Edited by Dragonji, 30 September 2015 - 12:41 PM.


#15
OFFLINE   JohnDory

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When you start the game, it loads etmain mod by default and silEnT devs obviously cannot change its behaviour.

Why does it load etmain ? because that is what your telling it to load by default, we load silent by adding +set fs_game silent to the executable, so we load et straight in to silent mod not etmain.



#16
OFFLINE   gaoesa

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We are currently discussing about the possibility to improve the favorite server list and make it accessible from the initial offline view. I don't know what if anything we can come up, but that approach could make it easier to join servers where players play regularly or have liked their stay while avoiding the issues that are related to menu modifications.



#17
OFFLINE   JohnDory

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why not just have the second silent menu thats in 0.9.0 showing when ever you load silent be it offline or online.

loading silent is loading silent whether its when et is first run or when you join a silent server or am I missing something ?



#18
OFFLINE   gaoesa

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It would have all the issues related to menu modifications. We are trying to solve the problem of quickly connecting to the servers players are regulars or want to join back. At least that has been the problem definition in this thread. This is the easy approach. Allowing servers to add client modifications to the offline state has many unresolved problems. Including the conditional activation of the second menu of a specific server.



#19
OFFLINE   Purple

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Woah, this is great!

Great untill we hack around it x)



#20
OFFLINE   gaoesa

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Great untill we hack around it x)

Unfortunately this is a sad testament of the state of the ET community. It has been visible for a long time around here too. To make matters even worse, ET client game is one huge CVE with no realistic way to protect players. Only thing I can think of is if a project like ET Legacy client would start checking the binaries it loads to prevent proxying the mods, or at least giving the users an option to allow it case by case. However, I don't believe it will ever happen and there is the political element too, which is always present in the GPL projects.






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