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#1
OFFLINE   ORDER

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I am a member of et.tjw.org. TJW is the co-creator of ETPub. In the past most times you downloaded an etpub client it came from us. You might be saying, "why is this guy telling us this"? Reason is that I hope it makes this request be taken a bit more seriously.

Our server runs ETPub 9 with damagekick being not enforced so players can choose. Most of us play with it set to zero and have gotten very used to it. This feature puts us on more even footing with players that potentially bot as they don't care if their screen shakes or not as it does not effect their aim. I can actually go head to head with someone who is cheating when damagekick is set to 0 and have good results.

We recently played on a silEnT server and loved it with the exception on one thing: the screen shaked when we were shot. It was so annoying we could not play very long and all of us ended up disconnecting. To understand how we feel imagine if someone forced you to play with blood splashing on your screen when you have always turned it off previously.

We loved the mod so much but the one and only thing stopping us from implementing it is the damagekick. As far as I know we were one of the first if not the very first ET server so we are not some fly by night group. ETPub is no longer being developed and silEnT has kinda of taken the torch which is great. I read in your forum about this command and that you had issues with server admins not being knowledgeable enough to restrict it and that may have led you to just remove it as well as your personal opinion that it wasn't needed. So... this is just my strong argument for it.

#2
OFFLINE   gaoesa

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Thank you for the compliments and I especially appreciate them when they come from a very old clan which has given lot of weight in ETPub and to ET overall.

To your argument about cg_damageKick, I don't agree, but I take your argument seriously. The reason why it was removed was indeed that only few players knew about it and not necessarily many admins either. It was giving advantage to players in an exploit kind of way and I personally know ETPub players weren't very willingly telling this secret to other players. We can still see how players find some exploit and they won't tell it to us so they don't lose the advantage. Also, the feature was restricted to only the ETPub which was limiting the knownledge even further as majority of the players come from other backgrounds. Sure it indeed does level the ground against some low tuned aimbots, but it also makes someone look more like an aimbot when he plays against someone playing the mod first times.

So to summarize, it was removed because it was not part of the original game and no other mod supported this either. It was exploit like and limited to only those knowing about it. The argument that it levels the ground against aimbots is not that strong, because it will only level against bots that are tuned very weak and not actually against botters as a whole. There is nothing stopping them tuning the bots little better and then again do the killings.

#3
OFFLINE   Chuckun

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You could always force damagekick to 1 (server-side) though, and IMO you (silent team) could make it so the default config forces damagekick to 1 - which gives the option for server admins who do know about it, to force it to 0 or to allow it to be changed individually if they so choose..

Just my two cents.. But obviously, it's your mod and you should develop it the way you think ET should be.. Otherwise what's the point of a new mod. >.<

#4
OFFLINE   Dragonji

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Unlocked cg_damagekick wasn't a feature of original game and the most popular mods so in my opinion the same value for everybody like it is from the ET beginning is fair enough. There is no reason to make the game more uneven. Just my humble opinion, you don't have to agree with me :)

Edited by Dragon, 03 November 2011 - 10:19 AM.


#5
OFFLINE   ORDER

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Keep in mind there are some decisions that really do need to be made by server admins. Server admins have responsibilities. We notify everyone of the damagekick. Although it may seem odd at first, after you play with it off you realize it is a huge improvement on the game and makes it far more pleasurable to play besides the helping with cheaters benefit that you may not agree with. When adding features to make the mod better the last thing you should do is remove a feature. I have no data on all the servers that play with this feature but I do know of a few in the top 50 ranking of server population that do not enforce. I'm am fairly certain these servers would not switch to silEntT for this reason. I know our server will not switch because we can't, you could say "we have seen the light."


With that being said, if I were a silEnT developer I would not put time into the damagekick for a minority of servers that enjoy it unless it is something easy. I'm hoping it was shut off because it somehow benefited you or made it easier to develop because if it was just shut off just because you don't use it yourself and think others shouldn't as well then booooooo! But like a previous poster said, "its your mod to do with what you want." It's just sad cause its such a good mod its just unusable for us.

Edited by ORDER, 03 November 2011 - 08:22 PM.


#6
OFFLINE   Dragonji

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but I do know of a few in the top 50 ranking of server population that do not enforce. I'm am fairly certain these servers would not switch to silEntT for this reason.

So they probably will stay with ETPub if such a feature is too important to lose it :), but there are certainly other reasons why they still keep ETPub and you cannot be sure they don't change the mod only because of 1 removed cvar. Moreover, you can try silEnT 0.2.1 where cg_damagekick is still changeable AFAIK.

Edited by Dragon, 03 November 2011 - 09:12 PM.


#7
OFFLINE   gaoesa

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You are free to use any mod you like. The decision to remove it was collective and it is not coming back without arguments why it should exist in the first place. Yes, I do not understand the need for it and I have never felt it made the game more enjoyable for me. Also, I don't understand why the serverside aimbot in the ETPub was made, which was also removed by collective decision. You might say it is a feature that helps to fight against aimbots. But then again, "I don't see the light".

With that said, ETPub is a fine repository of different techniques, but that does not mean every mod should utilise them all just because they are there. At least silEnT mod is not about these nonconvential features.

#8
OFFLINE   hellreturn

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cg_damagekick was added in last release in .9.1 or so and I didn't see many admins requesting that on ETPub forums either. It my memory serves right, it was added by Quad IIRC.

More or less we are not aiming towards how many servers in top 50 will use our mod or not but we are aiming towards what we can give best to ET admins to moderate their server nicely and players should enjoy playing ET at the end of the day.

Now as per your reason of combating against cheaters, I would just suggest to ban them rather then allowing them to play on your servers. For that actually we have added new ban features.

Also, I don't recall any other mod having damagekick feature either except ETPub 0.9.1

#9
OFFLINE   ORDER

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Also, I don't recall any other mod having damagekick feature either except ETPub 0.9.1

Just curious how did damagekick get in silEnT mod in the first place? :D

Moreover, you can try silEnT 0.2.1 where cg_damagekick is still changeable AFAIK.


I actually was already gonna do that but it defeats the purpose of having a currently developed constantly upgraded mod. Its a good thing to use a mod being currently worked on but we would be like the only server out there running an old silent mod. I wish we never knew about it that way we would not know what we are missing. We enjoy it.

I think a great fix would be to have a way for server admins to enable it if they prefer. Sadly because of the confrontational nature of man I fear that the stronger I argue for its inclusion that I have sealed its fate to never be added again...

Edited by ORDER, 03 November 2011 - 10:31 PM.


#10
OFFLINE   hellreturn

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Just curious how did damagekick get in silEnT mod in the first place? :D


As mentioned in our credits, we started working from 0.9.1 and hence it was in old version. http://mygamingtalk..../Silent_Credits

silEnT team has reworked code in many areas, fixed bugs, make it optimized and added new features. We are still optimizing old code in each release while we keep adding new features.

Sadly because of the confrontational nature of man I fear that the stronger I argue for its inclusion that I have sealed its fate to never be added again...


Don't get me wrong but argumentation should be based on valid logical reason for adding features. Your reason was to combat against cheaters and many including myself believe cheaters shouldn't be allowed to play on server to begin with. If you come with valid reasons we can surely look into it.

Like Microsoft, Apple, Ubuntu, etc we also don't provide support i.e bug fixes, security fixes, crashing fixes, etc for older versions. So if anyone decides to use old version and experiences crashes, lag, security, etc issues they are on their own.

#11
OFFLINE   =EMP=Avery13

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I would have to agree with hellreturn. Ban the cheaters, and you won't have to fight against them.

Not to mention, doesn't that having it enabled make the game a bit more realistic?

#12
OFFLINE   248148

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Exactly the same situation.
Our server runs ETPub 0.9.1 with damagekick.
Players do not want to go on silent mod without damagekick.
Please enable it again.

#13
OFFLINE   TheSilencerPL

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I've been following this thread for quite some time now, and I am leaning towards the conclusion that there are too many players unaware of what the cg_damagekick cvar really does or they know what it does but they just don't want to loose the advantage over the players which don't know this cvar at all. Sadly the worst thing in this story is that admins who should be responsible for gameplay balance and make it as fair as possible are voting for bringing this cvar back.
Admins, you should educate the players in this matter and not promote the cheat cvars.

Cheers :)

#14
OFFLINE   ORDER

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Exactly the same situation.
Our server runs ETPub 0.9.1 with damagekick.
Players do not want to go on silent mod without damagekick.
Please enable it again.

Whats the name of your server and when do you guys play? I'll stop by sometime. I have an old video card and love the fact that I get no fps drop in a firefight.

I've been following this thread for quite some time now, and I am leaning towards the conclusion that there are too many players unaware of what the cg_damagekick cvar really does or they know what it does but they just don't want to loose the advantage over the players which don't know this cvar at all. Sadly the worst thing in this story is that admins who should be responsible for gameplay balance and make it as fair as possible are voting for bringing this cvar back.
Admins, you should educate the players in this matter and not promote the cheat cvars.

Cheers :)


Silencer your missing the point. I wish we had a server full of new people! That would would be so great but we are limited lives with long spawns so we rarely EVER get new players. We are a small group of players who have played together for 7 or more years. I was asking to have it back for my group. Admins can cvar enforce it if they like. There are alot of things in the console that you can change that others don't know about that you can't change in the menu. Its kind of rude to suggest that the only reason I ask for it back is so that I can be the only one that knows about it... Keep in mind the game physics are still there so you get knocked left or right or forwards or backward if you are shot, its just the unrealistic semi circular shaking is gone.



I just had a great idea while typing this.... I wonder if it can be reduced instead of forced fully on or off.... or even better add it to the menu just like blood is....full blood, medium blood, no blood, etc... wow, add it to the menu that's a great idea why didn't I think of that sooner. No one could complain about it being a secret then.

#15
OFFLINE   gaoesa

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I can actually go head to head with someone who is cheating when damagekick is set to 0 and have good results.


Its kind of rude to suggest that the only reason I ask for it back is so that I can be the only one that knows about it...


Your statement was very clear about this. No point to use the feature against ambots. You can't win them in a long run because they will tune them up. Or the use of the bot would be very weird if not.

I wonder if it can be reduced instead of forced fully on or off.... or even better add it to the menu just like blood is....full blood, medium blood, no blood, etc...


People don't go through menus so often. Even still I notice people that have played on silEnT server for a long time don't even know the silEnT PM window where you can select the recipient with a single mouse click. However, the only way it could be added is to define it as a game feature settable by server setting and not optional in the client end. You said it yourself it is a feature giving an unfair advantage, and I agree on that. The other thing is do we really want to remove one part of the mechanics that makes the aiming when under fire more challenging and learning it more fun.

#16
OFFLINE   Patriot

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sorry for opening this old thread Again

 

just wondering if this still is a nogo?

 

I have lots of etpub members complaining about it atm, for them its a complete turnoff that they cant have it off.

 

if it was implemented in silent I would just use a forcecvar to make sure all had it.

 

Why not implement and thereby make sure etpub is left in the dust to die out?

 

pretty sure that setting alone is 1 of the mainthing we still see etpub servers.

 

sorry Again for reopening an old post



#17
OFFLINE   hellreturn

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sorry for opening this old thread Again

 

just wondering if this still is a nogo?

 

I have lots of etpub members complaining about it atm, for them its a complete turnoff that they cant have it off.

 

if it was implemented in silent I would just use a forcecvar to make sure all had it.

 

Why not implement and thereby make sure etpub is left in the dust to die out?

 

pretty sure that setting alone is 1 of the mainthing we still see etpub servers.

 

sorry Again for reopening an old post

 

Any change on server would result in few players complaining. It's up to the admins what to tell them. 

 

Upon each ETPub version update on my server from 0.7 to 0.9 players use to whine about hitbox change when ETPUB dev team use to tell there is no change in hitbox. 

 

My question made years back still stands. Which modes beside ETPUB uses to disable damagekick? 

 

There was a reason why we removed it on the first hand and we still haven't found reason to add it back.

 

If you have any specific reason to add it back please feel free to share and we will look into it.



#18
OFFLINE   Patriot

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Any change on server would result in few players complaining. It's up to the admins what to tell them. 

 

Upon each ETPub version update on my server from 0.7 to 0.9 players use to whine about hitbox change when ETPUB dev team use to tell there is no change in hitbox. 

 

My question made years back still stands. Which modes beside ETPUB uses to disable damagekick? 

 

There was a reason why we removed it on the first hand and we still haven't found reason to add it back.

 

If you have any specific reason to add it back please feel free to share and we will look into it.

Well I understand what your writing, I just dont understand your reasoning.

True, People will always complain about 1 or another thing when playing FPS

I have been running ET Servers for the last 10 Years, and what I truely like about WET is the total freedom of what I can do with my servers.

Damagekick is not a cheat its just a cvar, i can through my cfgs make it possible for people to use it or to not use it, i can even force it.

So my question is actually the same why restrict a setting that would eventually make sure that ETPub servers was transformed to silEnT?

 

Dont get me wrong, I like the silEnT Mod, and are the opinion its the best mod around atm.

 

I just Cant see the reason to make cvar restrictions in the mod, why not let it be up to the serveradmins?, let them decide what they think their players should have.

I know ETPub is the one introducing it, but that didnt mean it was bad, I see features in silEnT that has been in other Mods before, and I truely like the fact that you Guys are doing a great job with it.



#19
OFFLINE   Dragonji

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cg_damagekick is just a kind of built-in no recoil hack... Keep in mind no single mod but ETPub has this.

I don't get why all ETPub servers should migrate to silEnT. AFAIK silEnT was not meant to be a replacement for ETPub and what is more, I think variety of mods and their features is only a good thing for players, they are free to choose what they like most.

#20
OFFLINE   TheSilencerPL

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silEnT was not meant to be a replacement for ETPub

TRUE, we just based our work on etpub version, but it has never been our intention to become the next version of etpub or successor of it. Please stop naming our mod as the etpub continuation or so, it has never been meant to be so.






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