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SunLight

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  1. I agree with you that skills are not just fighting skills, the problem is that teamplay is harder if not impossible to calculate, and when people complain about unbalanced teams they generally mean being outaimed by their opponents. The only way to take teamplay into account would be to check who wins the map. But when it comes to 'winning a map', what does that mean? In my opinion you win when you had 50% chance to lose, all else being equal. Otherwise it shouldn't even be called a win. And that happens only when a map is played twice. All the public severs where I played for objectives had stopwatch mode on. Without stopwatch you could win a map only because it's easy, how can you *not* win, for example, maps like Adlernest or Frostbite, even if teams are even? For shuffles, the scores of last map (or maybe 2) would be easier than KR since, as it has been pointed out already, that rating is too 'slow' to change, while data from the previous map are more up to date. (I would take damage, kills are more or less the same, but damage has more 'samples' and it is not influenced by crossfire, since you can't 'steal' damage) The only problem is if a client connects or disconnects. (of course having a working 'rating' can give a goal to players, and make them join the server again to see if they can improve their score)
  2. it was a 6on6 game, yes I agree that I should probably have chosen another player, not an 'aimer'. Actually I took an ettv game because in my opinion public servers have more 'rambos' or players that play solo without much teamplay. So I expected to have more crossfire in a clanwar. But as you say in 6vs6 there is less chance of getting crossfired. I cannot calculate those stats from jaymod demos, because I took advantage of the fact that on etpro demos you can always know if a shoot is hs or not, regardless of the player. That is not possible with other mods, so the stats would count hs as bodyshots. But I can tell you that I've been taking such stats in etpro publics for years (splitting damage), to check if I was improving my aiming or if I just got crossfired/backshooted, and to check what my skill level was if compared to the average (and for other players as well). And according to what I saw 1on1 damage given/received is a reliable factor when it comes to tell who is low/med/high if compared to others. Actually even on jaymod I can tell how much damage is 1on1 or not, and I can confirm that almost half of the damage is 1on1 (at least for me, I don't necessarily have the playing style of others). The only reason why I said 1on1 in the 1st place, is not only the fact that killing in 1on1 requires obviously more skill than backshooting, or just finishing the job of a teammate. It is more because with a score like that one (killer's score goes up, victim's score goes down) it sounded reasonable to me to limit it only in those cases where nobody else was involved, that is no crossfire. edit: I mentioned jaymod because it's the mod I play the most, and so I have more demos, but public servers are all the same
  3. Indeed, but if you are going to make an elo kind of score then only 2 players must be involved, if I crossfire together with a teammate I can get a kill even if he did most of the job. And as far as objectives are concerned, even the smartest players will always fail if they can't aim, so it all boils down to aiming, especially in public servers. And in fact they (etpub) made 2 different ratings, 1 for objectives and 1 for fighting (not that it matters what they made, I think we are talking about what's better, not what has been made). Btw, you say 1on1 is rare? Here are some stats gathered from an ettv demo, the player is mAus, map:goldrush, the match is from cdc4 lan, only defending part, he was axis. (Damage from explosive weapons is not counted, only damage from bullets) 1on1 damage: given: 2168 rcvd:1711 crossfire: g:959 r:284 backshoot: g:807 r:558 I didn't take a public server game, becuse you could have said people don't play for obj in pubs. And there is no teamplay. Anyway maybe I'm getting a bit ot... since the thread was about the sorting, it didn't question KR algorithm
  4. I don't remember which etpub version, but it's an old one, they removed it later. It had a factor for every weapon if I remember correctly. And the distance of a kill is meaningless imho, if I kill a player in 1on1 then we are either both close or both far, so I don't see how it can be a skill factor... If I had to do it myself, I would have a table with all clients, with the time when each client received damage from every other client. Then when a player receives damage, looking at that table I could see if he received damage from another player in the last x seconds, if not then it's 1on1, if yes then it's crossfire. And maybe make a dot product of player vectors to see if it's backshoot or not. Having 1on1 damage, I would then make an elo score based on that, but it would require a bit more resources since it must be updated every time a player gives damage and not every time he kills. Of course having kr as a rough way to balance teams is one thing, thinking something on the lines of 'I have a higher kr so I must be a better player' is different. It would require a more complex algorithm and maybe impossible to do, so I can understand that changing it is not a high priority, after all if a player is good everyone can see it, ratings or not. For public servers it's better to have an admin moving some players to balance the total score (kills/deaths or damage given/received) of axis and allies.
  5. hmm now that I think about it my previous post was utter bs because even if a bad player lowers the average it's still a player more ... xd I don't know what I was thinking about wehen I wrote that. The fact that k/d can be improved stays, though
  6. ABBA is better all the times when there is an even number of players, but if the number is odd ABAB is better in most cases (not all, it's like 97%) an example with 15 players (I multiplied all ratings by 100): set of 15 ratings: [47, 70, 100, 108, 148, 182, 210, 221, 245, 251, 269, 298, 334, 383, 386] ABAB team1 [386, 334, 269, 245, 210, 148, 100, 47] team2 [383, 298, 251, 221, 182, 108, 70] total average: 216, axis: 217, allies: 216, diff:1 ABBA team1 [386, 298, 269, 221, 210, 108, 100] team2 [383, 334, 251, 245, 182, 148, 70, 47] total average: 216, axis: 227, allies: 207, diff:19 You also assumed K/D is a measure of player skill, according to what I've seen it doesn't always work properly. It was supposed to be a sort of ELO but if it hasn't been changed from when I saw it, I think it's a very dubious algorithm. It doesn't take many factors into account (weapons for example, I think old etpub took that into account, then you have backshooting, crossfire, etc.etc.) and once you have a low rating it's very hard to improve it even if you play better, while people who get high scores in lame ways don't go down...
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